Quite often I receive emails from theists (mainly Christians, but I get the occasional Muslim or Jew as well) with carefully thought out arguments in favour of their own favourite deity. However, I also get the direct opposite - arguments that (if they actually make sense at all) are hopelessly lame and feeble. Here are some of the more useless ones (spelling and grammar left intact).
From "Walt", three proofs of the existence of God:
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Here is the proof for God's existence: the resurrection of Christ. Another proof goes like this: Still another proof: |
From "HolyWarrior8"
| Well here I find myself sitting in my room writing up some more proof that there is a god. For one thing a lot of athiests say to me, well where did god come from, or why didn't he tell us? Well the anwser to this is, can a computer know where you came from, I mean really know where you came from, and really understand? The anwser of course is know. Another thing is that athiests say, well there is absolutely no proof that there is a god. Well can a computer find some proof and pass it out to his buddys and say this is prooof that some supreme being named Hewlett Packard created us? Well of course not. But I have found some pretty good evidence that there is a god. One is that my religion (islam) really makes since in the sort of things. First came judaism from Abraham, and Moses and some others, but the people got corrupted and went astray, second came Cristainity with Jesus, but the followers of that religion got corrupted, and then third came islam with mohammed but we have never corrupted, we have one version of the Koran, and we have practiced our religion the exact same way that the prophet Mohammed peace be upon him did when he started it, unlike cristianity and judaism. So then some athiests say what about hinduism and others and we say they had a prophet at one time or another and they went astray to. Another thing is that can we see signals going through the air, all the time well of course not but they're there though, well so can god. |
Also from "HolyWarrior8", a typical example of Pascal's Wager:
| wouldn't you rather be safe then sorry? I mean what if you die one day and happen to see that there is a god, what then? I am sorry to say this but Hell awaits. So what's the point of being an athiest and not be safe when you could become a believer and be safe from the hell fire? |
From "Mark Bernardini"
| SO FAR, TO ME, IT SEEMS CHRISTIANITY HAS MANY HISTORICAL FACTS AND EVIDENCE BACKING IT UP. IN FACT I HAVEN'T HEARD OF ANY SCIENTIFIC LAWS THAT PROVE GOD DOESN'T EXIST. IN FACT THE LAW OF THERMO DYNAMICS STRONGLY PROVES THAT GOD DOES EXIST. READ UP ON IT I AM SURE YOU WILL BE SURPRISED. |
Sometimes I have no idea what they're on about, like these two from "Karyl Marshall"
| HI Adrian, Perhaps I can help you to understand the Ten Commandments. As you do you receive. Smile and you will receive a smile. Frown and you will receive a frown. This is the law of the Ten Commandments, and of Action Reaction. Mercy stops action reaction. If I hit you, and you don't hit me back, that's the end of the matter. You suffered my sin. I know that even the good church people don't like to hear this. |
| I feel that you are in rebellion to God. I am trying
to instruct and give you truth and knowledge, not debate. I feel you are
debating, and standing on what you believe whether it is right or wrong.
I'm trying to communicate. I see no reason for you to disbelieve that I
and 2000 others saw a UFO at night that lit up the sky.
[snip - Adrian] The Lust of The Flesh From what I perceive from these Scriptures is that God gave man his spirit. In the beginning man was spirit. When the serpent beguiled Eve man was born into the world and man was driven out of the garden of eden. Man has Gods Spirit trapped in the animal body. The struggle of man is between the Spirit and the flesh as to which will rule. Emotions keep man from knowing who he is, and that keeps him from becoming sons of God. As you don't put your trust in inspired Scripture I will try to make things logical to you. Art directors use brain storming to be creative. When you dwell on what you are trying to create you pound your mind with all you want and know about what you are trying to create. Then you sleep on it. In the morning you have the answers you were seeking. This works, but you go over this all night, and you don't get paid for your work at night. You may have used this same process while studying. While you are doing this your Spirit is still in the body. I have traveled in my sleep and mediation going over the city and following roads and cars. You may or may not believe me, because I don't have witnesses to prove my trip existed, and you probably wouldn't except their opinion. If I have been able to establish that you have God's Spirit within you then what I think is that God is the God of the animal. God is not the God of the dead because man's Spirit returns to God, and then man is in Spirit form. I know that you don't like The Ten Commandments saying Thou Shalt Not, but the law was not made for the righteous but the ungodly and sinner. The righteous love their neighbor and God. Now if you believe in God and The Ten Commandments you believe what was given under the Old Covenant. God is a just God. Retribution, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. As you do you receive. The New Covenant is a new beginning. I won't go into that at this time. From your web site I see that you don't like and agree with the lives of other atheists that have rebelled against God. Some of them also are not believers of the golden rule, and as they do they receive, which is not like the life you would like to live. |
Whuuhhh? Robert Lavelle has this theory about the universe (there's plenty more, but it doesn't get any better) :
| Space, it ends. Space does not go on forever. Space is in a three dimensional
form. It moves but does not have gravity. Space moves like this. O /\ +
\/ O And that is the understanding of all of time. O This is what was first in the beginning. /\ This is the old kings and queens. + This is democracy. \/ This is socialism. O This is when the Lord Jesus Christ returns. And that is the understanding of the universe. Glory be to the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost. Revelation chapter 10 & 11; 15-19. It is very important the people receive this information. You may tell someone about this. |
A description of a convincing miracle, from "mitchell groce"
| well brother i,ll start by telling you that we all were born in sin, and for that were doomed for hell, so that is why god died on the cross for our sins. so you tell me did satan go on the cross for our sins ,no, did satan create us .no god did, and he created us to serve him, and those who refuse to repent from sin snd follow christ will be judged and cast into the lake of fire, i dont want that, be to hot for me. you know i really love god and i know he exist because i was in a very serious car accident and god saved my life. even the doctors and police admitted that i should have been dead. i,m thankful that he loved me enough to save me from my sins as well as death, there are more people who believe in christ then there are that dont, check it out. |
This gentleman appeared upset by something on my website, so I'm guessing that
this is some sort of argument for the existence of a God (the "expletive
deleted"s are mine):
From "PinoyOne":
| [expletive deleted] you, you [expletive deleted] [expletive deleted] [expletive deleted] [expletive deleted]. you ain't [expletive deleted] but a litte [expletive deleted]!!!!! |
Another classic example from "Walt", on the validity of the Bible:
| In regard to the statement, "the Bible is true, because the Bible says so," is true in light of it being God's Word, for whatever God says is true. And since the Bible contains the very words of God, therefore it is true. |
An example that manages to include two fallacies at once : Shifting the burden of proof (BOP) and Argumentum ad numerum from Metacrock on the Christiansareus message forum. (The bad spelling is a result of his dyslexia.)
| You have the BOP--not in the sense of having to prove that God doesn't exist of course! He who asserts an argument must prove it. But since religious belief is nomrative for humanity you must justify your skeptiscism. That means you cannot come on with the little arogant tone and assert that belief in God is irrational. I have demonstrated its ratinality. When an argument is presented in a prmime facie case it has presumption until over turned. |
Selections from a couple of emails from "David"
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REALLY, I REALLY WISH THAT YOU ADMIT I AM RIGHT... BECAUSE YOU KNOW I AM... having an e-mail battle ove something that I am so right about..It isn't even funny There must be a God, what purpose would there be in anything! There....THATS WHY I'M RIGHT. If there was no God I could do anythig I want to.... People suffer for reasons humans might not understand, but God does. God has PLANS for them. This is no superficial excuse as you think and I can tell you think that! |
"Alexander Caeser", a Muslim, makes this reasoned argument on my message board :
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THINK ABOUT YOUR DEATH BEFORE URE DEATH , AFTER WHICH U WILL NOT BE TO THINK . WHEN CLOSE TO DEATH , WONT U FEEL THAT " LIFE WAS SO LITTLE , WHY? " U WONT GET ANY EXTRA LIFE THEN TO ENJOY . THERE IS ABSOLUTE NO LOGIC THAT THIS LIFE IS THE ONLY LIFE , WHICH IS SO SMALL THAT WHEN IT ENDS , IT WOULD SEEM AS THOUGH , WHATEVER WE PASSED THRU IN OUR LIVES, IT WAS ONLY A DREAM! I DONT KNOW WHY IN THE WORLD ARE U ALL HAPPY ABOUT NOTHING , PROUD OF SOMETHING WHICH IS SO SHORTLIVED , PROUD OF ACHIEVEMENTS SO WORTHLESS ! PROUD OF ENJOYMENT , SO RARE ! EVEN THAT ENJOYMENT U WILL GET IS SHORTLIVED , THEN WHY BETTER NOT WE START MAKE-BELIEVING AND FORGET EVERYTHING IN MATERIAL , BOTH WILL BE ENJOYABLE WHEN WE WILL RETROSPECT , BY THE WAY , WE MAY NOT EVEN GET A CHANCE FOR RETROSPECTING ANYWAY ! |
...and also gives another excellent example of circular reasoning :
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There is no need for me to prove that there is God when God has sent a Book in which all the answers are given! |
Thunderbird manages to use many lame arguments in just a few sentences :
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Evidence of God For the ones who do not believe in God.....the proof of His existence is nature and life itself.....He created it....The Bible says that there is no excuse for the non believer....because living things were created by God. The Bible is the true Word of God...because it claims to be God inspired not man inspired...... Now you prove to me that God does not exist by evidence and studies....and prove to me that the Bible is not real.....not by your theories but by facts that prove that Bible is not God inspired......NO THEORIES I WANT FACTS investigations..... I am happy and satisfied of my answer to you....that God is real and the Bible is the Word of God. |
This one is from the Internet news rather than email, but it's so great I have to include it : School Committee Chairman Edward O. Boucher of Woonsocket said...
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"There is no assumption that a deity exists. It's a fact that a deity exists because we have In God We Trust on our coin. If it wasn't a fact we wouldn't have the word God in the Pledge of Allegiance, would we," Boucher said. The President of the United States also takes his oath of office with his hand on the bible, he noted. "So we are a religious country." |
I found this one in the December 2001 feedback at Talk.Origins :
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Let me pose a question to the godless ! On a clear crisp night, when the moon is full, what do you see ? Do you see a formless terrain on the moon ? If you do, it is because God has placed a veil over your eyes. The entire moon is the face of a man, formed by the shadows of the moons features. It is a beautiful face but mysterious. It's eyes are those of an old man, while it's nose and mouth are those of a child. It's expression is a look of awe. How could there be a face sculpted on a body that circles a body with creatures having a similar face ? The odds of this occuring by accident are astronomical, leaving only one answer: IT WAS SCULPTED BY GOD. |
I remain unconvinced...
